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Post by Crazsta on Jul 11, 2015 22:54:00 GMT -5
This post will be all about the ways we can currently stimulate the brain without invasive tech and what it means for what we are looking to achieve.Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation:
This is probably out most promising (current) form of non-invasive stimulation of the brain. This method uses electric current in copper coils to generate a magnetic field which can interrupt or create action within neural structures. Already there has been a study (given in sources below) in which two humans have been connected over the internet and one has been able to use their brain to move the others hand. This already gives us two major points that we can use, first is the connection to the internet, being able to send to others over the internet would be crucial in an VMMO and it has already been accomplished. Secondly it gives us a possibility as to how we may induce the inability to move during use. Theoretically it may be possible to use destructive interference from the gear to counter all unnecessary incoming stimulus while leaving core parts of the brain alone such as those that control breathing and heartbeat. Note: TMS is able to be "aimed" with a fair deal of precision with current tech allowing for precise and timed activation of parts of the brain. There are two current known downsides to this tech. First is the rare but possible occurrence of seizures from the stimulation (something that would need to be addressed before comercial use would be permitted). Secondly it is currently impossible to activate deep neural structures which may be necessary for what is planned. Sources:
www.med.upenn.edu/lcns/stimulation.shtmlwww.washington.edu/news/2013/08/27/researcher-controls-colleagues-motions-in-1st-human-brain-to-brain-interface/ (this is the study with the hand movement over the web) www.ccni.gla.ac.uk/index.php/component/content/article/46-facilities/labs/16-ranscranial-magnetic-stimulationPersonal Comments:
Personally I am not 100% convinced this will be the final way that will be used to allow for images to be created in the mind or for true sensation to be given so you feel as though you are the avatar. However I feel this may be a good step forward and may hold other uses within the tech (such as that described to keep the body immobile).
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Post by Vortex | Head Admin on Jul 11, 2015 23:30:11 GMT -5
Hey, I did a lot of research into this and was going to make a post about it tomorrow, but you beat me to it.  Anyways, I don't know if it's the final method that would be used but I definitely think TMS is a good starting point to "write" to the brain. It has it's caveats but those can be fixed through research and improvements. it may be possible to use destructive interference from the gear to counter all unnecessary incoming stimulus while leaving core parts of the brain alone such as those that control breathing and heartbeat. I want to avoid this as much as possible. I don't think we need to use destructive interference with anything as it could have some devastating mistakes/errors, my best bet right now is on a form of muscle paralysis, similarly to sleep paralysis. Thank you for posting this and if anyone else has anything to add please reply in this thread. We want to avoid duplicate threads if possible. |
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Post by Crazsta on Jul 12, 2015 7:52:19 GMT -5
Yeah that's a fair call, in fact (i'd need to do research on it) but maybe sleep paralysis exactly could be used, kinda trick the brain to think it's asleep so it keeps itself still (couple other benefits, might make a post tomorrow with better research).
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Post by azlen on Jul 13, 2015 19:19:09 GMT -5
I was researching, and I found the Lilly Wave (or Balanced Bidirectional Pulse Pair), invented by John C. Lilly. Of course, I am very skeptical about this but I will post it here because if we are researching all available ways to stimulate the brain without invasive tech, this could be potentially a possibility. I'm not sure if there is any reliable research on this wave, and most discussion about mass mind control or something. I was interested in seeing if we could find any research on this or create our own experiment to discover the validity of the claims made about this wave. Here is a link: 67.55.50.201/lilly/lillywave.html(what we are trying to do is essentially mind control, sensory mind control) |
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Post by Suu on Jul 14, 2015 1:41:24 GMT -5
The problem with direct brain simulation with TMS is that it was not meant for use in this area. It is supposed to be aimed at a specific region, and is used to stimulate the area, for diagnostic purposes. however, It cannot recreate specific sensory nerve signals, and cannot target small neural structures.
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Post by Vortex | Head Admin on Jul 14, 2015 6:14:15 GMT -5
The problem with direct brain simulation with TMS is that it was not meant for use in this area. It is supposed to be aimed at a specific region, and is used to stimulate the area, for diagnostic purposes. however, It cannot recreate specific sensory nerve signals, and cannot target small neural structures. That is why I contacted some experts that are doing research related to this. I'll post more once I get a response. |
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Post by azlen on Jul 14, 2015 18:54:46 GMT -5
Ok, I have done some actual research this time on techniques for non-invasive brain stimulation. Sorry for not writing much about both these techniques, my eyes are sore from staring at a computer screen for hours. Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation (GVS)GVS uses small electrical currents (5 mA peak) to stimulate the vestibular (balance) nerve via large surface electrodes placed behind each ear. This may be quite useful for simulating balance and orientation inside a virtual reality similar to SAO. Basically the idea it would stimulate the vestibular based on your in-game actions and orientation to simulate acceleration, rotation, and balance. Sources and more informationdigitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1239&context=thesesresearch.mssm.edu/moores01/project%20GVS.htmlFocused Ultrasound (FUS)Focused ultrasound can stimulate or suppress neural activity, depending on the parameters of the energy applied to neural tissue. Sources and more informationwww.tmslab.org/publications/407.pdf |
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Post by Vortex | Head Admin on Jul 14, 2015 19:04:22 GMT -5
Ok, I have done some actual research this time on techniques for non-invasive brain stimulation. Sorry for not writing much about both these techniques, my eyes are sore from staring at a computer screen for hours. Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation (GVS)GVS uses small electrical currents (5 mA peak) to stimulate the vestibular (balance) nerve via large surface electrodes placed behind each ear. This may be quite useful for simulating balance and orientation inside a virtual reality similar to SAO. Basically the idea it would stimulate the vestibular based on your in-game actions and orientation to simulate acceleration, rotation, and balance. Sources and more informationdigitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1239&context=thesesresearch.mssm.edu/moores01/project%20GVS.htmlFocused Ultrasound (FUS)Focused ultrasound can stimulate or suppress neural activity, depending on the parameters of the energy applied to neural tissue. Sources and more informationwww.tmslab.org/publications/407.pdfMimicking gravity and acceleration forces are extremely important to full immersion. Good find, I'll look into it more and ask the experts I'm in contact with. Also focused ultrasound may be come in handy when needing to paralyze muscle activity. Though I don't particularly like the idea of doing that through cancelation of neural activity as it might be abused. We'll have to research it more. |
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Post by shodan on Jul 15, 2015 22:28:07 GMT -5
We already researched FUS to some extent.
Suppressing neural activity seems very feasible, and actually worked, according to Linus's experience with Dr. Egelhaaf.
But focused stimulation requires focusing resolution much higher than what can be achieved with cutting-edge FUS technology.
GVS would be very useful for a Full-Dive system. I'll see if we can research this topic and report on the feasibility/cost/etc.
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Post by azlen on Jul 22, 2015 21:33:28 GMT -5
Has anyone done any research on stimulating the spinal cord to simulate somatic senses?
Maybe it could be easier and/or more accurate than brain stimulation.
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Post by arabkaiser on Sept 16, 2015 18:45:06 GMT -5
Has anyone done any research on stimulating the spinal cord to simulate somatic senses? Maybe it could be easier and/or more accurate than brain stimulation. Im currently doing research on stimulating the brainstem. Will write on it once im done! |
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Post by amoses7178 on Feb 23, 2016 14:00:02 GMT -5
The problem with direct brain simulation with TMS is that it was not meant for use in this area. It is supposed to be aimed at a specific region, and is used to stimulate the area, for diagnostic purposes. however, It cannot recreate specific sensory nerve signals, and cannot target small neural structures. Don't be so quick to dismiss TMS. Although you are most certainly right that it cannot serve properly in its current form, you have to consider the things it does right and wrong vs the other technology out there. First and foremost of that is that it actually reaches the interior tissues and stimulates SAFELY (meaning without damage to the nerve itself) the nerves in their native habitat without having to cut through the surrounding tissue. The optical techniques need direct or near-direct access to work. So of course TMS can't yet stimulate individual neurons or even nerve clusters. But, that's like complaining that the Nvidia GTX 280 can't run GTA 5 and dismissing that any graphics card could ever live up to the job. As it stands, the demand may not be there to push the technology of TMS to arbitrarily high accuracy or it just may be out of engineering reach for the moment until someone figures it out. What we could really use is some kind of hybrid of TMS and optical. Something with the penetrating power of TMS and the accuracy of optical. |
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Post by oaths on Apr 11, 2016 21:21:30 GMT -5
Amoses, are you in the slack? I believe you are exactly right about TMS. It has simply not been attempted because as of yet, their is no reason...But as more and more neural architecture is mapped and understood, a TMS breakthrough is increasingly desired. Sorry, I didn't try to steal anyone's thunder with my other post.
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Anyways, I don't know if it's the final method that would be used but I definitely think TMS is a good starting point to "write" to the brain. It has it's caveats but those can be fixed through research and improvements. 
